Austrian seminary scandal

Austrian seminary scandal

An Austrian seminary known for its conservatism has been hit by a pornography and homosexuality scandal. Not just any porn either, but child porn. What’s worse may be the attitude of the local bishop. In a different article, Bishop Kurt Krenn is quoted from television as saying that he had seen pictures of seminary officials in “compromising positions” with seminarians, and then dismissing it as “‘foolish’ boyish pranks.” Pranks? Violation of the Church’s teachings on celibacy, chastity, and homosexuality are pranks? Just goes to show that the problem is not just one of orthodox or heterodox bishops, but of bishops and others who don’t want to call a spade a spade, or more specifically, call a sin a sin.

  • This just about ruined my day at about 6 a.m this morning.  This is insanity.  The whole Church needs to be scrubbed clean.

    I feel very strongly that the Church is in the beginning of its tribulation, and will survive with the hard work of a very small minority of priests/bishops and laity who will uphold the faith at any cost…  The American Church, I’m afraid, is circling the drain.  The European church is on its way if not already there.

    So sad.

  • I was driving home from dinner with my boys sleeping in the backseat not long ago, wondering why I had so much difficulty distancing myself from the scandal emotionally. It occurred to me that it has everything to do with my own kids. If, God forbid, they had been abused by a priest, the Church would have treated my sons, and me and my wife, with exactly the kind of hatred with which it has treated so many child victims and their families. Why? Because the clerical mafia protects its own.

  • Two things:

    1. Kurt Krenn, appointed bishop by John Paul in 1991, was the only Austrian bishop to publicly defend the serial homosexual molester Cardinal Groer.

    2. Donna Steichen recently reminded me of something the late Fr. John Hardon, SJ, once said: that a great tribulation was coming upon the Church, and no ordinary dioceses, no ordinary parishes, no ordinary Catholic families, and no ordinary Catholics would survive it.

  • A third thing:

    “The Vatican said it had no comment.”

    They could say nothing about this? Nothing? That’s damning.

  • Rod,

    Something I frequently tell fellow Catholics: 

    “If you’re in the market for Grace, now’s the time.  Unwanted, bulk quantities are available for the low cost of practicing the Faith.”

    It reminds me of one of the promises of the Sacred Heart:  Fervent souls will rise speedily to spiritual perfection. 

  • Same here, Rod.  Thinking of my grinning, giggling three year old girl and seventeen month old boy has made the Scandals intensely personal.

    “History,” my a**.  Until the clergy start treating their lay charges with the same care and concern as their erring clerical brethren, it will never be over.  Never.

  • I’m completely with you, tm30 and Rod Dreher.

    This is just one more in hundreds of cases of intense sexual corruption and sin and evil which has infected this Church on a worldwide basis…and which has preyed on CHILDREN…  (Child pornography?????)

    Just like in other cases – these people haven’t slinked to the level of the world – THEY’VE FALLEN TO A LEVEL FAR BELOW. 

    When you look at your Church, and you have to look sharply downward, then something terrible has really happened…  And it has.

    The idea that the Vatican would have no comment is shocking and abhorrent and scandalous – and is an insult to every Catholic in this world.



  • Same with me.  My sons escaped contact with a two different homosexual priest predators (one in our parish and one in our school) twice – just by serendipity. Other boys were not so lucky.  They were RAPED.


    Our children are not safe in our Church, as it is currently constituted. 

    Never leave your son alone with a priest.

  • ONION, my friend, join me on the Lido deck! We’re about to sail past Big Rock Candy Mountain.

  • You know guys, I honestly don’t understand why the Church leaders don’t see this. Even if they had no personal regard for children or the laity, you would think they would have enough instinct for self-preservation to grasp the basic fact that if they don’t stop it, and stop it right now, the Church is going to collapse.

    Now, as soon as I write this, I am reminded of Barbara Tuchman’s lesson that the six Renaissance popes who provoked the Reformation honestly hadn’t the faintest idea that their little world wouldn’t last forever. I guess it’s that way with the hierarchy. They don’t understand what they’re doing to all of us, even themselves.

  • Today the Austrian press is reporting that the Vatican will get rid of Kreen by the fall. they say that “eine Eingreiftruppe” (a strike force!) is already being assembled. The seminary had a rampant and well known homosexual culture – what a surprise.  The magazine that broke the story is Profil – [url=][/url]

    Interestingly enough I was browsing the Austrian website and discovered that the #1 bestselling book at Amazon in Germany is a porno novel about the sexual adventures of a 14 to 17 year old girl.

    We apparently still do not get it. AS I write this my wife’s TV program has broken for an ad for Queer Eye for the Straight Guy.

    Ready to move to a cave and eat locusts and wild honey.

  • That’s interesting to read that the seminary had a rampant and well-known homosexual culture. Bp. Krenn was the most doctrinally conservative bishop in Austria, I’m told. What do all the folks who say that the scandal is just a liberal problem, and the result of heresy? By the way, Cardinal H.H. Groer, the late molester and Archbishop of Vienna, was also known for his conservatism. Ya never know about these cats…

  • Right now it looks like the”gates of hell are prevailing”….somehow extraordinary good will come from this extraordinary evil.

  • Their conservatism can be
    1. a shield to avoid suspicion
    2. a sign of a truly schizophrenic personality
    3. a devious way to destroy the Church through an insincere orthodoxy not rooted in the Love of Christ but in the practice of a loveless rigidity designed to mock the Church and its teachings

  • “We can’t ask anybody to do anything they don’t want to do,” explained the Rev. Mel Jurisich, head of the Franciscan order’s Western U.S. region.

    Really, Father? The man is a Franciscan Friar under vows of Poverty, Chastity and OBEDIENCE, for cryin’ out loud!

    You say “Go!” and he’d better say “How quickly” or you turf his butt out of the Order. Better yet, you personally haul his sorry butt back to Canada to face the consequences of his actions – and then you dismiss him from the Order.

    That’s real fraternal charity, Father – and quite familial.

  • Since it is the political season,let me ask,is the Church better off now than when the this Pope took “command” ?

  • Rod, do you REALLY think the Church will “collapse,” or was that rhetorical?

    We are (mostly) finished raising 9 children.  Due to my avocation, all of them have known at least 2 priest/predators (from the list the Archdiocese provided.)  NONE of my children have ever been in a situation where they were uncomfortable, much less touched or abused, by a priest.  And yes, they were in Scouts, were altar boys, in the parochial grade-school, etc., etc.

    While the situation is grave, so is the situation with the abuse of the Liturgy and the Holy Eucharist.  And they are roughly analogous.

    It is useful to recall Chesterton’s depiction of the Church “…wildly reeling, but still erect…” because it’s true.

  • Tony- probably, and far better off than it could have been under the guidance of a different pope.

  • This is what the Pope should do –

    He should get on his airplane, and make a worldwide tour – stopping in Poland, Austria, Ireland, New Zealand, France, Canada, the United States…  And in each country, he should visit the cardinals and bishops responsible for the homoconflagration of the Church, and should summarily dismiss them.

    At each stop, he should inform the whole world that what was going on was sinful, evil, disgusting, and defiled, in unbelievable ways, the Church.  He should take personal responsibility for it – as he is in command.

    Then he should call to repentance all those others – the priests, the lay leaders, the journalists, etc., who all knew this was going on for years – and tell them to put on sackcloth and ashes – and the Pope should lead by doing the same.

    He should tell everyone, in a LOUD voice, that children’s spiritual and psychological and emotional and physical safety is of the highest priority.

    Then he should return to Rome, and get on with dequeerizing the Church – not because we are not called to truly love homosexuals (we are) – but because having a heavily homosexualized priesthood does not, and will never work – and because it invariably leads to atrocities against children.

    Then the Pople should tell every priest, every deacon, every bishop and cardinal to get on board with Christian sexual morality, or to face the consequences.

    The Pope should say, in a clarion voice –


  • This is a time of purgation and purification for the Church, and I’m glad. The bad elements are being brought into the light, and the Church is going through a much-needed cleansing. Let’s get some perspective though, before we go off talking about great tribulations and the end of the world—the Church has been through worse and has survived. Remember Pope Alexander VI, who prostituted his own daughter to court power among rulers? And the popes and clergy who lived in open and unapologetic concubinage? At least today we are shocked by such things—back then, the world was probably not terribly surprised.

    The Church will survive; the gates of Hell will not prevail against her, as it has not in the past through periods of greater scandal and crisis.

  • Hold fast to the faith.  Go to Mass.  Receive the Sacraments frequently.  Say your prayers daily.  Make small sacrifices when possible.  Be generous.  And evangelize by example.

    In this way, you and your family will be protected from the evil that is encircling our Church. 

    Long live the Pope!  Sacred Heart of Jesus, have mercy on us!

  • I agree with tm30, but this is not an us and them thing.  Sin affects us all because we all sin. In the same way Grace affects us all because we are all in need of Grace and have access to this.

    If we think our “little” sins do not affect the world, think differently. Look around. We all have a part in the “evil that is encircling our Church”, so YES, hold fast to faith, Go to Mass…do all we can do to “Go and sin no more”. We all bear this responsibility, from Popes to Bishops to lay people to our children.

    Rod, how can no ordinary Catholic diocese…etc survive the tribulation? Is not the Church through Christ’s death going to prevail against Satan?  I’m not sure I understand what Harden means. How can this be?

  • You know what, GOR?

    St. Francis threw anyone out of his order who had ‘relations’ with another.

    That was it.

    Too bad he’s not around to take charge of the order which bears his name.

  • Actually Sinner, I think he is – or at least, He certainly is…

    While I deplore the mealy-mouthed utterances of a Fr. Jurisich, my heart goes out to the good Friars who have to labor under this burden and see their Order dragged in the mud.

    Here in Milwaukee at St. Josaphat’s Basilica we have three sons of St. Francis who epitomize all that St. Francis stood for and sought to establish.

    It is for Frs. Bill, Robert and Michael that I pray most earnestly when the likes of Fr. Chumik and Fr. Jurisich drag down the Franciscan name and tradition.

    Yes, I pray for them too, but I often feel it is the faithful ones who are forgotten in the rush to ‘understand’ and ‘be familial’ to the fallen.

    God help us all! 


  • Yeah, GOR…  I have met and known several devout and holy Franciscans – and St. Francis is one of my most revered saints.

    Each order now needs to be very, very careful that it doesn’t disfigure itself with sin so much as to lose the respect of the faithful (like the Jesuits).  I pray that such should never happen to the gentle Franciscans.

  • Rod, then like now they believed that it couldn’t happen—scriptural guarantees and all that.  But the Reformation did happen.  Just like a new reformation (or worse) could happen.  And yes, I think we are in the middle of a major collapse.  It started 40 years ago and is ongoing.

  • I think,in the end,this Pope’s only claim to fame will be his part in the fall of Communism. Not a bad days work,but that’s it.

  • I think,in the end,this Popeuthor_email>
    2004-07-15 19:44:59
    2004-07-15 23:44:59
    Uhhhhh….the definiton of countenance:  To give or express approval to; condone.

    That is exactly what you said, when you said…..“But on the other hand, he has countenanced a homosexual conflagration against children in this church….” 

    Essentially what you said….“But on the otherhand, he has [condoned and given express approval to] a homosexual conflagration against children in this church….”

    He most certainly has not!!!!!!!  That is not only in bad taste, but incredibly igonrant.  Shame on you.


  • I agree michigancatholic.  Either we start to turn around now, right now, right right now, or its goin’ to sink so far into the slime that it will be irretrievable (except at some long future date).

    But to turn it around, orthodox (real) Catholics will have to fight every inch of the way, every day, and they will have to endure incredible evil and vacuousness and manipulation along the way.  They will have to protect their kids at every instant from spiritual and physical harm. 

    We need some prophets to help, and the loving hand of Christ himself.

  • Sorry, Camilam – The homosexual abuse of teen boys in America, in Ireland and in Poland too, was well known to the Vatican many years ago – and in fact, a number of faithful Catholics relayed information about this directly to the Pope.  He did NOTHING about it.

    But further, this is all part and parcel of the fruits of his having countenanced extreme dissent and heterodoxy in the US, and particularly with regard to sexual morality.

    I remember that one confidant of the Pope, some years ago, revealed that when he (the Pope) was advised of the slime here in the US, his response was – “Well, I tell them, but they don’t listen.”

    His job IS, and always WAS, to do more than ‘tell’ them.

    Basically, the Pope just let go on what was going on.

    Even today, the head of our Church has not done one noticeable thing about the situation here in the US – other than to weaken the US bishops’ zero tolerance policy.

    Homosexual rapes of children have gone on for years and years and years in several countries around the world – with no action from the Pope.

    As you can see from the news in Austria, the slime continues to ooze out.

    ALL of the bishops (except for Law and several homomolesting bishops themselves) responsible for this in the US are STILL IN PLACE.

    The Pope clearly doesn’t get it. 

    Now, when I used the word countenance – I mean he let it happen.

    He did.  Shame on him.

  • Cam, about your assertion that Plato was an existentialist…….we’ll just let that characterize your philosophical acumen and leave it at that, ok?  wink 

    “I think what Fr. Hardon meant was that times are going to get so hard once the corruption in the Church began to metastasize, that Catholics who didnit really broke.  They have known this was going on since the early 90s because there were Rudy Kos in TX and others then.  They knew.  They chose not to deal with it.  They chose to let it happen.  There is no way they could not have known. 

    Hell, old ladies around here knew in their honest moments.  Good grief, we’re not blind!  There’s one around here who flips his little wrist at me and giggles if I can’t get out of his sight fast enough….  true.  There’s a minor seminary around here that’s been quietly shut down several times, only to open again and recruit a new bunch of parents/kids…etc.  Come on, folks. 

    There’s no way they could not have known.  Just like there’s no way the leaders are ignorant of dissent, and mass abuse and translation problems (which steal our birthright away) and all the rest of it.

    It’s just NOT VERY IMPORTANT TO THEM.  Especially if we’re still fawning over their sorry ***es and giving them money for not much of anything.

  • michigancatholic,

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  • michigancatholic,

    You started the whole philosophy thing, I was simply responding….and I think that MY teachers may take exception to you calling the education I received from them as “do-it-yourself.”

    And as far as Opus Dei goes…..I have already stated my position.  That should enough for you.  And if you are trying a backhanded slap about our reputation, good luck, Davinci Code was fiction.

    As far as the topic on this thread, nobody has really followed it in a long time….regardless of my statements on philosophy.  There have been generalizations about the Holy Father, statements in support of Sinner and Christine, being elected Pope, Fr. Hardon, the rule of St. Benedict, and many other things….so, I was responding to you and to Rod (after he responded to me, of course).

    Oh, by the way, I thought I was pretty clear about philosophy and not obfuscatory…..LOL smile


  • DaVinci code was indeed a fiction, but that does not canonize Opus Dei or your behavior, my friend.

    Keep laughing.  It beats your scrambled version of “philosophy” any day.  It is do-it-yourself, Cam.  I don’t know who your “teachers” were….but…..

    Anyway, this really is about the seminary at St. Poelten, Austria.

  • “And I think that he has not run the church, but let it go like a weed. “

    You’re right, michigancatholic.  At some point, the Pope just decided to do his thing – write and go to World Youth Days and promote ecumenism – while he let the rot get rottier in America and elsewhere.

    And there was that great, great temptation to believe the whole homo sex abuse thing would blow over. 

    But it didn’t.  It just kept getting worse.  (For when good men do nothing, evil ALWAYS gets worse…)

    And thousands of boys are scarred for life (and some have committed suicide too).

  • Rottier, homomolester, Sinner, I actually prefer you making up words now than using actual words wrong. 

    And do not confuse cleaning up with getting worse.  You want the Church cleansed from these people then when it happens, you scream that nothing is getting done.  The light is on.  Housecleaning is happening. You’re gonna hear about it.  Good men are doing things.  The Pope is one of them.

    You don’t like how the Holy Father is handling the situation?  Not moving fast enough for you?  You have a right to your opinion.  You do not have the right to say he supported the scandal.  You do not have the right to dissent against him.  That is NOT a Catholic doctrine. 

    And Michigancatholic for cryin out loud. Have you any idea how obviously weak your arguments are?  Can you actually say anything about existentialism or is your entire argument based on insults? 

  • the Pope just decided to do his thing – write and go to World Youth Days and promote ecumenism

    This is so arrogant!


  • Bryan that whole bolding thing is cool.  How the text that you want to bold and     < /b >    (with no spaces) at the end of it to turn off the bold.  You can substitute an I for the B in order to have italics.  There are other tags that you can use, but this is a good start.


  • Aaah the use of html.  How silly of me!! 

    michigancatholic use arguments not insults

  • This is so arrogant!

    Ya think?

    I think it’s arrogant of the Pope to allow dissenting and heterodox bishops to go on corrupting our youth, decade after decade.  I think it’s arrogant of the Pope TO NOT EVEN MEET WITH THOSE WHO WERE MOLESTED.  I think it’s arrogant of the Pope to offer Cardinal Law – a master homomolester shuffler, a cushy little job in Rome when the man should be jail.  I think it’s arrogant of the Pope to keep in place scores of bishops who shuffled molesters all over the place – including into my kids’ schools and my parish.  I think it’s arrogant of the Pope to say no more than two or three sentences about the whole thing.  I think it’s arrogant of the Pope to allow an enormous queerizing of the priesthood, for decades, with all the predictable consequences.  I think it’s arrogant of the Pope to have known this was going on for years – in seminaries as well – and to have done nothing about it.  I think it’s arrogant of the Pope to do all his good and wonderful stuff while the American Catholic Church rots, and rots to such a degree THAT OUR SONS ARE NOT EVEN SAFE.

    Somewhere, a long time ago, the Pope effectively abadoned me and mine, here in my little parish in New Jersey – to the corrupt and evil powers that be in this Church.

  • I think itnbsp; This truth has fallen on largely deaf ears.  It is only *starting* to be appreciated by folks my age who are going to good Catholic schools – you know, the youth with whom he wastes time at World Youth Days.  If the majority of the bishops and priests in the curia are corrupt or, perhaps not corrupt, but spineless, and likewise a fair number of priests and bishops throughout the world, what can the Pope do?  This is what he has to work with.  What he can do is preach the Gospel to a generation who will listen.  All these things that have happend are terrible… but history cannot be changed and what we can do is work towards improving things in the future.  Firing everyone involved, slapping heavy penalties on them, even executing them on live television is not necessarily going to solve the problem.  The fact that the problems are coming to light is a blessing because it highlights the timeliness of the Holy Father’s message even more – his teachings on sexuality, on the priesthood (e.g. Pastores dabo vobis), etc.  All these awful homomolestors (sic) are going to die eventually – and if justice is not served in this life, it will be served in the next.  If the Pope did everything that you call for, not only would there be very few people remaining for him to work with under thy stringent standards, but you still wouldn’t be happy.  You’d continue posting your gloom and doom because then there wouldn’t be enough priests and bishops to minister to your sons anymore.  Then it would be the Pope’s fault again, because he isn’t doing enough to get good men into the priesthood.  He fired all those imperfect men after all.  Is all this a reason to condone allowing so-called homomolestors to remain in the priesthood?  No.  That’s not what I’m saying.  But your know-it-all approach reeks of arrogance.  The fact that the Pope does not issue a public statement about every thing that happens – the fact that you have only read a couple of sentences – does not mean that he is doing nothing.  As a society we’re so used to everything being exposed in the media that we simply can’t *stand* it if something is happening behind closed doors.  But you know that that must not be the case – the Pope is too busy writing a thesis on existentialism or something, right?

    Someone in this thread (Rod Dreher I think) said that he hopes that the next Pope stays in Rome and works towards authentic Catholic reform.  Actually, authentic reform begins with each one of us, and that relates to following the teachings of the Church—which this Pope has worked tirelessly to develop and promote these past 25 years—and working towards ongoing conversion in our own lives.  If we do this, then we can be assured that all of these terrible things will pass by, and that justice will be served – either now or at the day of judgment.  What’s more, I’ve noticed a good number of new priests and bishops who are refreshingly orthodox, integrated men, and I hope to become one also if God calls me (I am a seminarian now).  Remember the virtue of hope? 

    Well, I want to say more but it’s way past bedtime.  Good night.

    Bryan Jerabek

  • I like what Bryan said…way back…too many of us think we’re more catholic than the pope…and there’s nothing wrong with existentialism of the theistic variety….gabriel marcel.for example and “The Mystery of Being”…and the great personalist philosopher Emmanuel Mounier from whom the H.F. took inspiration for so many encyclicals……his travels, his pilgrimages, his great encyclicals on divine mercy, redemptive suffering, the gospel of life, and the splendor of truth, the devotion to youth and to Fatima,  the great jubilee year, the support for Solidarity and the kick in the pants to Soviet Communism, the near martyrdom, the magnificent canonizations and beatifications, the concern for the poor and his criticism of unbridled capitalism…everytime I see this holy man, even now, I am edified and inspired to continue on….truly where John Paul II is…there is the Church!

  • Bryan,

    Nicely said.


    See, despair is horrible thing.  It is obvious by your statements that you are losing or have lost hope in the Church.  Please don’t.

    There is no despair in the Church.  It is a sin against hope and the First Commandment.  We talk about heresy and schism so much that we can work ourselves into a state of despair.  Look to the CCC 2091, “The first commandment is also concerned with sins against hope, namely, despair and presumption:

    By despair, man ceases to hope for his personal salvation from God, for help in attaining it or for the forgiveness of his sins. Despair is contrary to God’s goodness, to his justice – for the Lord is faithful to his promises – and to his mercy.”

    You cannot separate the Church in America and the Church either.  That is not sound.  You cannot separate this Pope and bishops from the Church, that is schism.

    You have effectively made a schismatic statement by saying, ” Somewhere, a long time ago, the Pope effectively abadoned me and mine, here in my little parish in New Jersey – to the corrupt and evil powers that be in this Church.”

    How can I say that?  Because schism is rightly defined as “the refusal of submission to the Roman Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.” (CCC 2090)

    I have refrained from stating this thought, but that last statement is uncontianable.  Your statements in this thread lead me in all charity and filial love for you to ask that you refrain from that….I don’t want to see you fall into the sin of despair.  I will pray for you, that you don’t lose hope.  I will pray for you that you come home to the Church.

    Think that is a little harsh?  It is true.  Look back on what you have said.  Think that is presumption of first rate, it is not.  It is my role, as a catechist and a Catholic to let you know that you may be promoting something contrary to the Church.  Please don’t.  You continually attack the Holy Father.  You simply cannot do that.  It may cause scandal and it is schismatic.  If you lead someone away from the Church by your statements, you have done that.

    You are not following what the Church commands by your recent actions.  The Church calls us, nay commands us to believe in her and bear witness to her.  You are not doing that.  You are doing the opposite.

    Peter, et al.,

    Nicely said as well…..the problem with Kierkegaard is that he thinks that it is a great responsibility to create a person, yet that is exactly what each human does—creates a self. This self is independent from all other knowledge and “truths” defined by other individuals.  This is contrary to the life of the Church.  But then again, Kierkegaard was a Lutheran (more rightly a Danish National Church member), so that doesn’t really suprise me.

    To think like Kierkegaard is to contemplate the self, the Creator, and the universe with passion; all objective truth is to be questioned, as the Creator is the only entity with knowledge of absolutes.

    “God does not think He creates; God does not exist, He is eternal. Man thinks and exists, and existence separates thought and being.”

    And that is just wrong.



  • Bryan –

    You misunderstand.  I don’t think the Pope’s preaching the truth is bad.  It’s not.  It’s good.  I don’t think World Youth Days are bad.  They’re good.

    But the Pope has been horribly negligent with the adminstration of this Church – and certainly in America – and in many others countries as well.

    The Pope, at some point, left America to the American bishops – while knowing what was going on.  This was gross negligence.  He failed miserably on one big part of his job description.

    And you’re dead WRONG about firing people.

    When people put in charge of the spiritual (and other) welfare of dioceses NO LONGER EVEN KNOW THAT IT’S WRONG TO PLACE CHILDREN IN DANGER, it’s time to act.  The Pope has not.  And he has not acted for a very long time.  The people who did not know what every parent in the world knows are still in charge.

    You know why I’m so angry?

    Because I FEAR for my children. 

    Every Sunday they hear total heterodoxy – it’s not necessary to go to Mass. Homosexual acts aren’t bad, if in a ‘loving’ relationship.  The virgin birth isn’t real, because if it were, we wouldn’t understand the ‘holiness’ of sex.  Jesus Christ really didn’t perform miracles.

    My two sons missed a rapist priest by a couple of years.  They were exposed to a homomolestor deacon.  Priests from the monkery at my son’s high school were soliciting teen boys for sex.  My bishop had teen boy sex going on in his beach home.  At the local ‘Catholic’ univeristy, they welcome abortion lovers in open arms, and the former head of the university is off buying sex from 14-yr. old boys in Toronto.

    And the arrogance (and the silence) shown from the Vatican on down with regard to all if this is breathtaking.

    My older son read the Catholic blogs and such.  He just read (not at my wanting) about the thing in Austria.  It’s wearing him down.  He wonders if what we tell him is true – that this IS the Church of Christ.  I can see in his eyes the doubt forming.  My wife and I fear his loss to the faith.

    In the end, if my sons ever be safe in this Church – from spiritual garbage and from homo priests – it will be because of some future Pope.

    Many good and holy Catholics I know have left the Church.  Why?  Because they cannot meld together the Church’s claim to be one, holy, Catholic and apostolic with the worldwidespread rapes (spiritual and physical) of kids.

    We Catholics have zero power with regard to the administration of the Church.  We are supposed to rely on those ‘above’ us.  Those ‘above’ us treat us, in general, like dirt.

    You are right that reform will begin with us (since it’s not coming from above).  But the first part of that is to bravely confront the truth of things – however horrible they may be.

    Many of my best Catholic friends no longer go to Mass – because they are too sickened.  They were the ones who would help reform the Church.  I encourage them to come back and help.  But many will not.  And they were the good ones.

  • Bye all…  It’s been grand posting on this blog.  I think Dom does a great service to us all.

    However, I’ve come to the conclusion that posting here isn’t a very valuable use of my time. 

    Hope to see you all one day, where there will be no more tears…

  • Sinner, I hope you at least keep reading. Thanks for contributing.

    By the way, about the philosophy discussion: If you want to continue to discuss existentialism or what not, the Discussion Forum is the perfect place to do it. Start a thread there on it and I’ll put a notice on the front of the blog.

  • “Start a thread there on it and I Cardinal Mahony could also order Brother Chumik out of the diocese, but he has just said “Just keep me informed, please,” according to the Franciscans. On the other hand, the cardinal’s spokesman said Mahony has no knowledge of Chumik. So which is it? Who’s lying here?

    I’m glad to hear the Brother Chumik has a very nice herb garden at the priory, but what about his victims? (The article says he’s admitted having done what he’s accused of.) Where is the justice for him or for the people of Canada? A trial is not just about preventing someone from harming anyone else. It is also about punishment and justice. It is about finding the truth and having it revealed in open court.


    2004-07-13 11:50:53
    2004-07-13 15:50:53

    2004-07-13 13:12:13
    2004-07-13 17:12:13
    “Order members say they feel a familial obligation to Brother Chumik and want to keep him close….”

    This is the heart of the scandal—a failure to recognize that those outside the *clerical* family are also brothers and sisters in Christ.  Such are treated as less important on a disturbingly consistent basis.

    Tommy Smothers was right—“Mom always did like you best.”