Last Thursday, The USCCBureaucracy’s Department of Social Development and World Peace sent a letter to every congressman on the subject of the Israel-Hezbollah conflict. It includes a summary of a statement by Bishop Thomas Wenski of Orlando, chairman of the Committee on International Policy.
It does name Hamas and Hezbollah as terrorists, condemns their terrorist attacks, and says they bear the responsibility for “initiating the current cycle of violence.” However, in the next paragraph, while admitting Israel’s right to defend itself, the statement says that “Israel’s response has been in some instances militarily disproportionate and indiscriminate.” Specifically it says that attacks on civilian areas and infrastructure, blockades, and other acts of war are unsupportable. Last things first: Since when are acts of war not permissible in war?
More importantly, there is the larger question: How does a country respond when its neighbor allows terrorists to launch attacks on them from within civilian areas with impunity? Israel is apparently taking utmost care to make only surgical strikes on targets, encouraging civilians to evacuate, telling pilots not to release weapons when in doubt, and so on. Yet Hezbollah is hiding amongst civilians, even using some as unwilling human shields. Is Israel just supposed to sit back and let rockets rain throughout Israel? What of their responsibility as a government to provide for the general welfare of its citizens?
A day late and a dollar short
Technorati Tags:bishops, Catholic, Congress, Hezbollah, Israel, Lebanon, USCCB, war
bk_keywords:Israel, war.
Sometimes the USCCB should keep their own counsel. All to themselves. Away from the media and the politicians.
“How does a country respond when its neighbor allows terrorists to launch attacks on them from within civilian areas with impunity?”
How does a country respond when its neighbor is unable to prevent terrorists from launching attacks without provoking a civil war of its own in its fragile new democracy?
Bomb everyone, of course. The attacks on civilian infrastructure and a possible humanitarian crisis hardly inspire confidence that the secular state of Israel cares much for Christian just war principles. The concerns about a lack of proportionality are quite appropriate.
Is Israel really just dropping bombs everywhere indiscriminately? Just throwing them everywhere without regard for who might be under them?
Really, how do you think Israel should respond? How should Israel keep Hezbollah from dropping rockets on its cities when, as you acknowledge, Lebanon is unable or unwilling to do so?
Can the Vatican provide for the defense of Israeli citizens under attack by terrorists intent on killing every one of them?
http://www.sullivan-county.com/immigration/beslan2.htm
Scott:
Can you confirm that, because I’ve been seeing reports that most of those “civilians” are in fact plain-clothed Hezbollah. I’ve also seen reports that Hezbollah deliberately keeps women and children in their bunkers and other hideouts for just this purpose. In that case, the responsibility lies with Hezbollah.
I don’t know about you, but my concern for victims of war is not dependent on whether or not they share my religious convictions. In the grand scheme of things, that the victims of war are Maronite does not reduce my compassion or increase it. I have the same compassion for Christians, Muslims, and Jews.
Actually, I don’t think Sodano’s, Benedict’s, and the USCCB’s statements have been at all consistent with one another.
And I haven’t said that Israel can do no wrong either so don’t accuse me of being a Catholic Zionist.
I’m simply asking the question that no one seems to want to answer: What is Israel supposed to do?
Claiming that Israel’s bombings precipitated this conflict is disingenuous. Hezbollah has been attacking Israel for years, thus the initial rocket attacks from southern Lebanon were part of a continuing campaign to wipe Israel off the map. And let’s not forget the killing and abduction of Israeli soldiers that were a trigger as well.
First, I don’t see this conflict contained between Israel and Hezbollah. I see radical Islamofacist terrorism as a threat to the United States and my family. They are constantly threatening us and may one day have the power to hit us even with a nuclear weapon. I can not expect Israel to do anything less than what I would want my government to do if bombs and rockets were being hurled down on my kids.
Israel is obligated to defend it’s citizens against unjust aggression according to Church teaching. I must submit to that in order to remain faithful to Christ.
Isabelle
No. He would be unfaithful if he said Israel was wrong in defending It’s citizens from being attacked with bombs and rockets that are raining down on them.
Israel is obligated to defend it’s citizens in this conflict. She can’t do that if she has to stop firing while her civilians are being deliberately targeted for death by terrorists and their weapons of mass distruction. (I consider thousands of rockets wmd.)
The pope is right to call us to prayer and to ask for a cease fire but he can not condemn any State for defending itself against unjust agression and war.
Sorry, forgot to sign above.
Isabelle
Can there be a more assinine comment than Mary’s?
Scott, I am a Catholic partly as a result of the witness of dear Lebanese Catholic friends. They want to see Hizb’allah destroyed as much as the Israelis.
So far, all the Christians I know in Lebanon have reported that so far they are all okay. Obviously they want the fighting to stop, but as my friend Antione told me, “If Israel doesn’t finish the job, to hell with them”.
So I will take his word, as someone with family right in Beirut, over anyone else’s.
“Wanting to see Hezbollah destroyed, however, does not mean, that Lebanese Christians desire to see their innocent kinfolk die in order to obtain the destruction of Hezbollah on Israel’s terms”
It is not on Israel’s terms. It is the Terrorist Hezbollah killing machine that is not letting Lebonese civilians leave and that is hiding behind lebonese women and children.
Blame Hezbollah for all the deaths of the Lebonese civilians.
Isabelle
Obviously, Scott is a radical liberal Islamofacist terrorist supporter who fails to place responsibility for the savagery and world wide acts of terror intentionally directed against civilians where he should (if he is indeed a Catholic at all).
I am well aware that he is trying to deceive Catholics in saying they are not being faithful due to the mere prudential judgement statements of the pope but I would go further and say he is one of those Catholics who are responsible for appeasing the Islamofacist terrorists and in sympathyzing with their killings throughout the world offering them aid and comfort cheering them on in their killing sprees.
Go Israel!
Isabelle
That should say: but I would go further and say he is one of those DISSIDENT Catholics who are responsible for appeasing the Islamofacist terrorists and in sympathyzing with their killings throughout the world offering them aid and comfort cheering them on in their killing sprees.
Isabelle
Well, while we’re all flinging around defenses against unwarranted allegations, I will note that I do not support George Bush always and everywhere—and that my thinking on this matter has nothing to do with Bush—and that I do not think Israel can do no wrong. In fact, I think Israel may have overreached or overreacted in this case.
And I’m still waiting for someone to tell me what Israel should do to stop Hezbollah. Yes, Syria and Iran are behind Hezbollah and Lebanon is essentially a puppet state of Syria. We can pressure those two states to stop supprting it, but will that make a difference? Will Iran go along? And what does Israel do in the meantime?
Scott, the “heart of the matter” is Dom’s question. All you’ve done up to now is avoid it with a lot of sanctimonious babble.
Cut the pompous jerk act and answer it.
People: The number one rule on this blog is that ad hominem attacks are not allowed in comments.
Scott: It is widely acknowledged that the Lebanese government is a puppet of Syria and that it has virtually no control over Hezbollah or southern Lebanon. If they did, they’d have prevented Hezbollah from using southern Lebanon as a staging point for raids. The government is completely ineffective.
Scott,
I never said it was unlawful to destroy noncombatants, but that it was unlawful to target them. This is an important distinction.
You are saying that a nation may never take action that it knows is likely to cause civilian deaths. That is not the law of war, and I don’t even think it is required by just war doctrine.
There are many examples of this. The workers in a steel mill are non-combatants and may not be targeted as such. The factory where they work may be, even if its destruction means almost certain civilian casualties. This may not seem an important distinction, but it is. If you targeted a dormitory where the workers lived, that would be unlawful. You see, it is not their deaths as such that is in issue, but how their deaths relate to the legitimate target. In the case of Hezbollah, they are using civilians as shields. They cannot make their means of war immune from attack in this way. This does not mean Israel can do whatever it wants, only that that likelihood of civilian casualties is only one part of the equation.
It’s not enough to look at proportionality in terms of the acts of the initial aggressor either. It is no answer that all this is over just two captured and 9 killed Israeli soldiers. Proportionality must be judged in terms of the threat. Hezbollah has over 10,000 unguided rockets. It is backed by Iran, a nation whose prime minister has repeatedly called for the annihilation of the state of Israel (and he doesn’t mean by diplomatic pressure).
I do think Dom’s question is very valid, and your “work with the Lebanese” answer is wholly inadequate. Lebanon is already under a general obligation under international law, and a specific one by UN resolution, to stop Hezbollah from operating in their country. Whether they can’t do this because of weakness or won’t because of complicity is irrelevant to the Israeli’s when unguided rockets are landing in their cities.
Scott: I’m not trying to have it both ways. The Lebanese government should be taking care of Hezbollah within its own borders, but it is incapable of doing so. Being ineffective does not make it inculpable. There is such thing as culpable negligence.
And I don’t see where Benedict disagrees with me. I too would like to see peace and a cease fire. What I don’t think we should see is Israel laying down its arms unilaterally while Hezbollah continues to attack it. A cease fire must be mutually agreed upon. I suppose it’s a backhanded compliment to Israel that people at least see her as reasonable enough to stop fighting at some point, while they don’t see Hezbollah as capable of ending the violence from their end.
Yes, theoretically dialogue and negotiation could if both parties consisted of reasonable individuals, but Hezbollah’s sole reason for existence is the annihilation of Israel. Just where is the room for negotiation there?
Let’s also not forget that this is not a war between nation-states. The same standards cannot apply. This is like asking Britain to negotiate with the pirate Jean Lafitte or Blackbeard.
It may not be unanimous but the poll quoted on one of the network news shows last night (I forget which one, sorry) said that Israeli support is about 80 percent in favor. I won’t take the opinion of one professor of political science as indicative of the majority of the people. You can always find someone to disagree with any public policy.
I don’t want to get into nit-picking, but when you say “Israeli public opinion”, you imply that it is representative of a majority of the people. That is how a reasonable person would interpret it.
As for Benedict’s prayer I do agree, but none of those rights are absolute. In 1939, Germany had a right to the sovereign integrity of its nation and Poland had a right to live in peace in their state. But when circumstances required it, the Allies invaded Germany and imposed a new government on the people (and a fair amount of Germans died as a result as well.)
I think the Pope is saying that ideally all those conditions are true and our goal should be to attain a circumstance that reflects them. But how we get there is still up for debate.
And I’m still waiting to hear an explicit proposal for how Israel should have responded to the kidnapping and killing of its soldiers by Hezbollah and subsequent rocket attacks on Israel.
The intentional distruction of innocent human life is never permitted. That is exactly what terrorism is all about. Self Defense of terrorism is an obligation of the State. If Israel did not defend it’s citizens from the deliberately planned mass murder by terrorist organizations they would be accountable for those deaths.
Israel must defend it’s citizens and the only way it can fulfill that obligation is to distroy Hezbollah.
I am praying for their absolute victory for the sake of all civilization.
The decision of a nation to go to war does not belong to the Church but to the State because the State will be held accountable for the lives entrusted to its care.
Isabelle
Scott,
Two final points:
On the issue of public opinion. You clearly were trying to indicate that there was some significant opinion within Israel on the other side. If you cover yourself by saying “not unanimous” and mean that you can find one person who disagrees with prevailing opinion – come on. Dom is right on this, you are nit picking.
Finally, no one has said there are no options for Israel, but that the one they are taking is legitimate. Frankly, it’s the only thing likely to work. It is kind of hard for me to take seriously the idea that the UN or the international community are going to do anything to help Israel. It is becoming increasingly clear that that they stand alone, with a tenuous US and UK, in a great stuggle for their very existence, and I think an early stage of a great struggle to save the Judeo-Christian world.
Scott,
Are you implying that all Catholics must hold the same political views as the pope? Are you insinuating that those who disagree with the personal political opinions or prudential judgements of Bisops and the Pope are not faithful Catholics? Are you trying to lead Catholics into believing they are unfaithful if their politics are in favor of self defense of innocent human life? I can’t believe any Catholic would refuse a Nation the right to defend it’s citizens from mass murders intent on torturing and killing its civilian population and annihilating the entire Country. What kind of Christian Charity is that?
What kind of government is it that does not work for the common defense? One that has no right to govern.
I believe in the absolute right of a Nation to self defense of it’s citizens against terrorists intent on mass murder of it’s citizens as Hezbollah is.
I believe you are tying to deceive me into thinking I am unfaithful if I disagree with you regarding Israel’s defensive actions against barbaric terrorists. I support everything Israel is doing in defense of her citizens. I hope the United States Government is willing to do even more for our National Security.
And… I hope the Vatican is making some plans too. I have a feeling they are going to need them.
Isabelle
Isabelle
Scott:
That is not an alternative. You are positing a negative. I’m not asking what Israel should not do. I’m asking what Israel should do? If you can’t answer that question, I’m afraid there’s no reason to continue this discussion.
I still believe you are trying to deceive me into thinking I am an unfaithful Catholic for supporting Israel’s right to bomb Lebanon even if civilians are casualties. If I am right, you are in a state of grave sin yourself and I am doing what is required of me – Calling a wolf a wolf! There is no sin in that.
You better back up your claim that I am unfaithful for believing that the State does not have the moral right and obligation to declare war against an unjust agressor intent on annhililating that Nation and all it’s people.
Isabelle
What is this?
http://www.smalldeadanimals.com/archives/004338.html
Isabelle
This is not Church teaching. Did you make this up and try to deceive me and others on this board?
And where in Church teaching does it say that Catholics can not disagree on the circumstances of when a war is just or not? I believe this is about the most Just war I have ever heard of and I think and submit to the Church in her teaching that states:
2308 All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war.
However, “as long as the danger of war persists and there is no international authority with the necessary competence and power, governments cannot be denied the right of lawful self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed.”
Now tell me how I am being unfaithful to the Church. Rockets were raining down on the people of Israel and they were certainly acting according to the right of lawful self defence. You must submit to this infallible teaching and stop confusing the faithful who submit in faith to it.
Isabelle
I am pro-the war against terrorism. I am not necesarily pro-Israel as it would depend on her actions at the time and according to circumstances. I voted for Predident Bush twice because I believe the murder of millions of innocent children under the platform of the democratic party is a grave intrinsically evil act and would be for me a mortal sin equal to cooperating in genocide.
I do not disagree with the Church on any matter pertaining to faith or morals including this one:
2308 All citizens and all governments are obliged to work for the avoidance of war.
However, “as long as the danger of war persists and there is no international authority with the necessary competence and power, governments cannot be denied the right of lawful self-defense, once all peace efforts have failed.”
Do you submit to this teaching regarding Israel’s right to self defense against Hezbollah in the present war?
This is infallible teaching and all Catholics must submit in faith to it. If you do, what are you arguing about in all these posts and why are you insinuating that Catholics who do submit to it are not compassionate toware the Marionite Christians and other civilian casualties? Why are you suggesting that they are not faithful to the Church?
Isabelle
Isabelle
Steve,why did you say:
if you weren’t equating the Pope’s prudential judgement with infallible teaching unless you were trying to deceive me and others into believeing we were being unfaithful to the Church?
Isabelle
You don’t believe all peace efforts have failed even after the war is raging? How convenient! The war has begun. Now is it just or not just according to the catechism? What “international authority do you believe has the power to make the parties cease hostilities? Certainly not the U.N.
http://www.opinionjournal.com/federation/feature/?id=110008672
You are running away after telling me I have committed a mortal sin against the Catholic faith and calumny against you.
Yet you led me to believe that the Pope’s mere personal political point of view or prudential judgement was in fact infallible teaching that I and all Catholics were obligated to submit to in faith.
You also led me to believe that it was never morally justified to have civilian deaths in a war under any circumstances. Both were untrue and I was obligated to fight against you for the Truth of our Faith.
Please know that I don’t believe either was intentional or done with malice.
Isabelle
Stop fishing for what you are absolutely unworthy of. You most certainly did attempt to lead faithful Catholics to believe that:
1. The Pope’s personal political view or prudential judgement was Infallible Chruch teaching by your use of Lumen Gentium as an argument against our support of Israel’s attack of Hezbollah.
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Then you say you are not telling us we are unfaithful? Why quote Lumen Gentium which has to do with being faithful to the magisterium in matters pertaining to Faith and Morals?
2. You have yet to explain to us how
according to the Church’s teaching on war.
You continue to mislead and deceive Catholics by using lumen Gentium as a weapon against their legitimate right to support the war against Hezbollah and to remain absolutely faithful to Church teaching in doing so.
Think of what the consequenses would be if even one Catholic is misguided by your teaching them these things.
Isabelle
I ignored it because it doesn’t answer my question: What should Israel do? Apparently you believe that when terrorists lob rockets designed to kill civilians over her borders from another, Israel should ask other countries to put “pressure” of some unspecified kind on the sponsors of those terrorists. And while that’s happening she should just sit and wait it out.
Others here have pointed out that Israel has experienced the futility of waiting for others—including the UN—to solve its Hezbollah problem.
Archbishop Lajolo’s judgment is an interesting prudential one. I have faithfully given it the highest esteem and regard and based on my understanding of the situation I think he may be wrong. Maybe he’s not. As I said at the start of this, I’m not convinced that Israel is right here, but neither am I convinced it’s wrong.
I’m still waiting for someone to propose an alternative that sounds workable.
Of course, I pray for the day of peace to come today and I also call for an immediate cessation of hostilities, but by both sides. But I don’t expect Israel to stop fighting unilaterally because that’s tantamount to suicide. And I think Benedict sees that as well.
No, Scott, that’s not what I said. I said what I said but you keep re-interpreting it into your own terms.
You are making sweeping judgments that admit of only one conclusion, when in fact reasonable people could come to different conclusions.
It is not hypocritical, it is not the only way, and I don’t believe my prudential judgment is far off from Pope Benedict’s.
All casualties in war are tragic. If I posted the tragic story of a civilian casualty on the Israel side, would that create a moral balance?
I fail to see what this has to do with the wider discussion of the strategic and diplomatic policies.
I have prayed for all victims of war and terrorism and continue to do so, whether they are Maronite Catholic, Israeli Jew, related to famous conservatives, or simply anonymous civilians.
These rhetorical tactics feel like an attempt to distract from a debate you aren’t winning.
Scott,
I’m sorry if I misread your intent. I will indeed keep her and her family in my prayers, as I do everyone affected by this conflict.