Voice of the Faithful is always claiming that it doesn’t take a position on controversial issues of Church doctrine (as if it’s OK for Catholics not to take a position on Church doctrine), but as I’ve pointed out numerous times VOTF is really just another liberal, heterodox group of dissenters.
Take for example, Voice of the Faithful New Jersey. If you look at their web site, what is the first item listed (as of this date)? A program in September called Other Voices which they describe as: “In keeping with our commitment to educating ourselves about issues related to all three of our goals, we have invited representatives of several reform groups in the Catholic Church to speak to us.” Who are these groups? Association for Rights of Catholics in the Church, Call to Action, Catholics Speak Out, CORPUS, FutureChurch, Pax Christi, and Women’s Ordination Conference. These are all ultra-liberal, dissenting, heterodox, and even heretical groups. There’s no diversity in this group because there isn’t a single “voice” actually defending the faith.
Speaking of VOTF-NJ, Fr. Bob Carr points out to me that the domain name for the group’s web site is registered to someone who only gives his name as “Joseph,” but who helpfully provides his address, phone, and email. “Joseph” has the same email address as “Joseph Cece” who is listed at the web site of the heterodox group Rent-A-Priest (see the listing for Little Falls, New Jersey). Same email, same city.
When you look under the rock of VOTF you see all the same bugs crawling around together. Trace it back far enough and you’ll see that Voice of the Faithful is nothing more than the same heresy re-packaged for a new generation, a new crisis, and a new opportunity to pick up angry Catholics to their cause. Thankfully, their efforts seem to be just as successful as before; i.e. not very.
Old Joe better watch it! If VOTF is were ever to succeed in its goal of letting everyone who wants to act like a priest, his “rent-a-priest” scam would be history.
On another note, it is always telling how these VOTF/CTA hacks treat everyone else as if they were too stupid to see their blatant ploys and tactics for what they are. These folks are insufferably elitist.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) [ip: 155.135.55.200] on 07/19/05 at 09:07 AM
I don’t think Pax Christi is a “dissenting, heterodox” group. (But I understand that to say this is to sound like the Jesuits in the story who, accused of killing three men and a dog, triumphantly produce the dog alive.)
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) [ip: 66.208.37.3] on 07/19/05 at 12:51 PM
Sorry, but Pax Christi is more like those groups than unlike. They’re participation in this event alongside the other groups is just one piece of evidence of it.,
Why do people who disagree with the Church’s teachings try so hard to do so, when it would be so much easier to start their own church? If they truly believe that the Church is the sacrament of Christ, that it was established by Christ Himself and the Spirit continues to guide it, what makes them think that they will bring about such sweeping changes?
Or do they believe that the Church is divinely instituted? I would say they don’t. And thus, they cast themselves out of the Church.
Posted by francisdesales [ip: 138.162.140.46] on 07/19/05 at 05:42 PM
“Why do people who disagree with the Church’s teachings try so hard to do so, when it would be so much easier to start their own church?”
Because the presence of the Catholic Church is a rebuke to the fact that they are not in control, they are not God and the Church as She is is a reminder that we need to be and can be, better than we are - with the help of God and not man made things. Least a ways that’s the conclusion I have come to!
BTW, way back when VOTF started out I joined… and then quit when the invited speakers were local (Massachusetts) leaders of CORPUS and CTA—- not that I knew what either of those groups were at that time but with the advent of computers and search engines none of us should be ignorant of what’s what and who’s who. These people are all intertwined and basically, they all say the same thing. VOTF just tried to be more circumspect about what they wanted and they tried to use the ‘scandals’ as a nose under the tent but people aren’t as dumb as they assumed.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) [ip: 24.218.209.222] on 07/19/05 at 07:01 PM
“...the presence of the Catholic Church is a rebuke to the fact that they are not in control, they are not God and the Church”
then there has been no real conversion yet. Religion has meaning only when we realize that we are not in control of our destiny, when we realize that a higher power is in control of things. Only after we understand this can we turn to religion and “re-bind” to God Himself and place our trust in Him.
It sounds like these charecters are looking for a more political soapbox to express their views. Anything that expresses a view contrary to Catholicism, esp. when it is from “within” will be guaranteed to get air time. If Americans hear something enough times, they will begin to believe it (probably without even a thoughtful consideration to look at the possibility that they have been duped)
Posted by francisdesales [ip: 138.162.140.46] on 07/19/05 at 08:24 PM
“Sorry, but Pax Christi is more like those groups than unlike. They’re participation in this event alongside the other groups is just one piece of evidence of it.,”
Could you provide some examples? I went to their website, and all I could find (though my look was pretty cursory) was an extreme pacifism that is well out of the Catholic mainstream (and is, IMHO, dead wrong) but I don’t believe actually contradicts Catholic teaching or practice.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) [ip: 66.208.37.3] on 07/20/05 at 07:11 AM
Look at Pax Christi’s newsletter from Sep/Oct last year, and notice how they selectively quote from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s Doctrinal Note on the Participation of Catholics in Political Life. Compare to the original document, and you will discover that they use the quotes, out of context, in such a way as to make CDF note seem to say the exact opposite of what it actually says. Heterodox (nice euphemism there) AND sneaky - they fit in perfectly with VOTF.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) [ip: 12.76.166.195] on 07/21/05 at 08:14 PM
There are any number of articles related to VOTF real agenda. They have never been hidden about it. Look to some of the older versions of it Call to Action ARCC, etc. What has allowed them more power and prestige is the weakened leadership of our bishops who have little idea of just how organized these groups are. The strenght of the internet and how a small group can relate to a larger audience without much investment. And, the simple reality we, as a Chuch have been heading in the direction of a “schism” for some time now. Whether it is mirrored in our politics or not is fodder for discussion as well. But, it would seem so. The strategy might seem to be to stay the course and pray that our bishops lead and don’t follow. These groups have a way of self distructing since their only value. VOTF is just one example. Look to the list of speakers at their various groups. I think it was Crisis Magazine that did a great job of exposing them.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) [ip: 4.170.147.105] on 07/23/05 at 06:32 AM
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Who’s behind VOTF?
Voice of the Faithful is always claiming that it doesn’t take a position on controversial issues of Church doctrine (as if it’s OK for Catholics not to take a position on Church doctrine), but as I’ve pointed out numerous times VOTF is really just another liberal, heterodox group of dissenters.
Take for example, Voice of the Faithful New Jersey. If you look at their web site, what is the first item listed (as of this date)? A program in September called Other Voices which they describe as: “In keeping with our commitment to educating ourselves about issues related to all three of our goals, we have invited representatives of several reform groups in the Catholic Church to speak to us.” Who are these groups? Association for Rights of Catholics in the Church, Call to Action, Catholics Speak Out, CORPUS, FutureChurch, Pax Christi, and Women’s Ordination Conference. These are all ultra-liberal, dissenting, heterodox, and even heretical groups. There’s no diversity in this group because there isn’t a single “voice” actually defending the faith.
Speaking of VOTF-NJ, Fr. Bob Carr points out to me that the domain name for the group’s web site is registered to someone who only gives his name as “Joseph,” but who helpfully provides his address, phone, and email. “Joseph” has the same email address as “Joseph Cece” who is listed at the web site of the heterodox group Rent-A-Priest (see the listing for Little Falls, New Jersey). Same email, same city.
When you look under the rock of VOTF you see all the same bugs crawling around together. Trace it back far enough and you’ll see that Voice of the Faithful is nothing more than the same heresy re-packaged for a new generation, a new crisis, and a new opportunity to pick up angry Catholics to their cause. Thankfully, their efforts seem to be just as successful as before; i.e. not very.
COMMENTS
Old Joe better watch it! If VOTF is were ever to succeed in its goal of letting everyone who wants to act like a priest, his “rent-a-priest” scam would be history.
On another note, it is always telling how these VOTF/CTA hacks treat everyone else as if they were too stupid to see their blatant ploys and tactics for what they are. These folks are insufferably elitist.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) [ip: 155.135.55.200] on 07/19/05 at 09:07 AM
I don’t think Pax Christi is a “dissenting, heterodox” group. (But I understand that to say this is to sound like the Jesuits in the story who, accused of killing three men and a dog, triumphantly produce the dog alive.)
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) [ip: 66.208.37.3] on 07/19/05 at 12:51 PM
Sorry, but Pax Christi is more like those groups than unlike. They’re participation in this event alongside the other groups is just one piece of evidence of it.,
Posted by Domenico Bettinelli [ip: 192.168.1.1] on 07/19/05 at 12:52 PM
Why do people who disagree with the Church’s teachings try so hard to do so, when it would be so much easier to start their own church? If they truly believe that the Church is the sacrament of Christ, that it was established by Christ Himself and the Spirit continues to guide it, what makes them think that they will bring about such sweeping changes?
Or do they believe that the Church is divinely instituted? I would say they don’t. And thus, they cast themselves out of the Church.
Posted by francisdesales [ip: 138.162.140.46] on 07/19/05 at 05:42 PM
“Why do people who disagree with the Church’s teachings try so hard to do so, when it would be so much easier to start their own church?”
Because the presence of the Catholic Church is a rebuke to the fact that they are not in control, they are not God and the Church as She is is a reminder that we need to be and can be, better than we are - with the help of God and not man made things. Least a ways that’s the conclusion I have come to!
BTW, way back when VOTF started out I joined… and then quit when the invited speakers were local (Massachusetts) leaders of CORPUS and CTA—- not that I knew what either of those groups were at that time but with the advent of computers and search engines none of us should be ignorant of what’s what and who’s who. These people are all intertwined and basically, they all say the same thing. VOTF just tried to be more circumspect about what they wanted and they tried to use the ‘scandals’ as a nose under the tent but people aren’t as dumb as they assumed.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) [ip: 24.218.209.222] on 07/19/05 at 07:01 PM
“...the presence of the Catholic Church is a rebuke to the fact that they are not in control, they are not God and the Church”
then there has been no real conversion yet. Religion has meaning only when we realize that we are not in control of our destiny, when we realize that a higher power is in control of things. Only after we understand this can we turn to religion and “re-bind” to God Himself and place our trust in Him.
It sounds like these charecters are looking for a more political soapbox to express their views. Anything that expresses a view contrary to Catholicism, esp. when it is from “within” will be guaranteed to get air time. If Americans hear something enough times, they will begin to believe it (probably without even a thoughtful consideration to look at the possibility that they have been duped)
Posted by francisdesales [ip: 138.162.140.46] on 07/19/05 at 08:24 PM
“Sorry, but Pax Christi is more like those groups than unlike. They’re participation in this event alongside the other groups is just one piece of evidence of it.,”
Could you provide some examples? I went to their website, and all I could find (though my look was pretty cursory) was an extreme pacifism that is well out of the Catholic mainstream (and is, IMHO, dead wrong) but I don’t believe actually contradicts Catholic teaching or practice.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) [ip: 66.208.37.3] on 07/20/05 at 07:11 AM
Look at Pax Christi’s newsletter from Sep/Oct last year, and notice how they selectively quote from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith’s Doctrinal Note on the Participation of Catholics in Political Life. Compare to the original document, and you will discover that they use the quotes, out of context, in such a way as to make CDF note seem to say the exact opposite of what it actually says. Heterodox (nice euphemism there) AND sneaky - they fit in perfectly with VOTF.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) [ip: 12.76.166.195] on 07/21/05 at 08:14 PM
There are any number of articles related to VOTF real agenda. They have never been hidden about it. Look to some of the older versions of it Call to Action ARCC, etc. What has allowed them more power and prestige is the weakened leadership of our bishops who have little idea of just how organized these groups are. The strenght of the internet and how a small group can relate to a larger audience without much investment. And, the simple reality we, as a Chuch have been heading in the direction of a “schism” for some time now. Whether it is mirrored in our politics or not is fodder for discussion as well. But, it would seem so. The strategy might seem to be to stay the course and pray that our bishops lead and don’t follow. These groups have a way of self distructing since their only value. VOTF is just one example. Look to the list of speakers at their various groups. I think it was Crisis Magazine that did a great job of exposing them.
Posted by .(JavaScript must be enabled to view this email address) [ip: 4.170.147.105] on 07/23/05 at 06:32 AM
Comments are being moderated. After you submit your comment it could take up to a couple hours, but usually only a few minutes, before it will appear. Thank you for your patience. If you have any questions, you may contact Domenico Bettinelli.