The international parent to Voice of the Faithful, Call to Action, proves once again that it is neither Catholic nor in touch with reality by its latest press release.
The international dissident movement “We Are Church” is issuing an appeal to the Catholic bishops, gathered in Rome for the Synod, to confront the “real” problems relating to the Eucharist. At an October 4 press conference in Rome, the dissident group called for reconsideration of the key Catholic doctrine on the transubstantiation, an end to the “hierarchical monopoly” on the sacraments, and approval of shared communion with other Christian denominations.
“Hierarchical monopoly” smacks of a childish cry of “But it’s my turn!” I don’t get their problem with transubstantiation. Apparently, they want it jettisoned because Protestants don’t like it.
Hey, if these people want to be Protestants so bad, why don’t they just go join a Protestant church?
We Are Church argued that the dogma of the transubstantiation—the teaching that the bread and wine at Mass are transformed into the Body and Blood of Christ—is unacceptable to Protestants, and thus impedes ecumenical unity. The group decried traditional forms of Catholic piety, such as Eucharistic adoration and processions, as tending to make an “idol” of the Blessed Sacrament.
Duh, you can’t make an “idol” out of God Himself. Does anyone doubt that poor catechesis leads to this sort of heresy?
Yup! The Protestants don’t believe in transubstantiation and look how united *they* are! Makes perfect sense to me! Not.
What a bunch of old whiney losers.
Pathetic! We should deny revealed Truth just to be more inclusive…?
Thousands of Catholic martyrs died rather than deny their faith and this lot wants us to do it to ‘make nice’.
They should count their blessings. A few hundred years ago they would have run the risk of being burned at the stake for their heresy.
And they want the laity to vote for who becomes Bishop. So not just Heretical but Congregationalists too!!!
Are these people ever dumb. As you suggest Dom; too much bad faith formmation and catechesis.
We Are Church = We Aren’t Catholic Church.
It may not be so much bad faith formation as the ever-growing “you have to do what I want because I say so”/“I am infact the center of the universe” mentality that is prevalant.
I have an aunt who has pretty much always been active in the Church. She was well catechized. Went to Saint Thomas in the 50’s. Her parents were solid Catholics. She was the CCE director at my Parish for about 12 years. Sometime in the 80’s, when her daughter went off to be educated at Rice University, she became a flaming-liberal/cafeteria Catholic. I mean fire-breathing card carrying union liberal democrat in the worst stereotyped way possible. She became of those people who adopted the “it’s between a woman and her god” philosophy toward abortion. The rest of the family shakes their heads…. I suspect daytime talk shows had an influence on her as well.
Nobody is forced to be Catholic in this day and age. If these people want a Protestant belief on the Eucharist, they should become Protestants.
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69.250.89.193
2005-10-05 20:51:17
2005-10-06 00:51:17
JBP,
I’m not sure about the Lutherans and Methodists, but as far as the Anglicans are concerned, I’d have to so no. Article 28 of the Anglican 39 Articles of Religions states that…
“…Transubstantiation (the change of the substance of the bread and wine) in the Supper of the Lord cannot be proved from holy Scripture, but is repugnant to the plain teaching of Scripture. It overthrows the nature of a sacrament and has given rise to many superstitions. The body of Christ is given, taken, and eaten in the Supper only in a heavenly and spiritual manner. The means by which the body of Christ is received and eaten in the Supper is by faith…”
Whatever. The falsehood they believe is unacceptable to Catholics and impedes ecumenical unity. Therefore, they should abandon their false beliefs and begin Eucharistic Adoration at once.
Someone should mention this to Pope Benedict. Apparently he is holding talks with the Anglicans (and thus Methodists) and has held talks with the Lutherans under the assumption that we hold common beliefs.
Thankfully (sarcasm)we have the good folks at bettnet to continue 400 years of hapless, wasting, schism, despite all catholic doctrine, tradition, and hope.
JBP
“Apparently he is holding talks with the Anglicans (and thus Methodists) and has held talks with the Lutherans under the assumption that we hold common beliefs.
Transubstantiation is not one of them. I hope our Holy Father can find a way to move those outside of the Catholic Faith to receive this divinely revealed Truth though.
Am I missing something? With today’s spectrometry and chromatography labs, couldn’t the consecrated host and wine be verified as transubstantiated to a different physical state – otherwise the default would be the concept of consubstantiation, where the body and blood of Christ are still very real, but in a spiritual presence? In other words, if we got past this conceptual hurdle by scientifically proving (or disproving) the claim of physical change, we could pave the way toward easier reconciliation with many Protestants. In other words, why doesn’t the Church attempt to settle this debate with the means available to possibly to so? Or am I missing what transubstantiation means? Anyone know? Thanks.
You’re thinking “physics” laddie, not “metaphysics”.
You can’t measure transubstantiation with scientific instruments. The “substance” changes, but the “accidents” remain those of bread and wine. In case you haven’t taken any metaphysics courses, “accidents” is how a “substance” interacts with the world, i.e. how it looks, tastes, feels, smells, etc.
That’s an oversimplification, but the best I can do in a combox.
As for John, true Christian unity and ecumenism comes from seeking Truth in common, not from watering down Truth in a compromise nobody really believes.
Dom,
I typically trust in the Papacy, and I think I will continue this trust during the communion talks with the Anglicans and Lutherans.
JBP
Yeah, me too, and I trust that the Church won’t be giving up the dogma—solemnly defined—of transubstantiation, because She can’t. The Church cannot deny the truth.
Dom, thanks for the clarification of Transubstantiation with regard to metaphysics … so that, given this distinction between Essence and Esse, I’m assuming that Consubstantiation must be a lesser idea of Christ being present in the consecrated bread and wine (I assume ‘con’ means ‘with’?). Anyway, Jesus says “do this in memory of me” – so was Transubstantiation a divine revelation to theologians later on in the early Church? Thanks for any comments …
The roots of the understanding transubstantiation go back as far as the apostolic fathers (the first 150 years AD) and even the Gospels and Epistles. But the full understanding of the doctrine, like many doctrines, took many years to reach its full unfolding.
All Public Revelation ceased with the death of the last Apostle, but the deeper understanding of the Revelation went on (and continues to day).
“Do this in memory of me” is a particularly Jewish way of speaking, which means more like “make me present again when you do this.” For Jews of the time, remembering something made it present in a way. With Jesus, he was going beyond mere remembering to making some truly present.
Consubstantiation is, as you say, the idea that Jesus is present alongside the bread and wine. There’s bread and wine there still and Jesus too. The Church has rejected this.
Last March I attended a meeting of Natick Parish Voice, described as a Voice of the Faithful affiliate. There was a panel of six speakers, including Rev. Walter Cuenin. Among other things, Cuenin said that priests were not needed for transubstantiation as, after all, in the early Church priests were not available. No one challenged this assertion.
Thanks for the info Dom – fascinating stuff. I remember a wonderful priest back in HS, who used to exclaim the “is” extra-emphatically when saying “this IS my body” and “this IS my blood” … I miss such demostrated certitude in the Mass.